In the Summer and fall of 2018, many of us who have been for the most part friends and allies in the Gospel, have been subject to a split, it started out as a very human interaction but I am convinced it morphed into a kind of Satanic attack.
We are the ones who have enjoyed the same circles of teachers, and who in large part have left heretical churches to become a kind of informal, grassroots remnant of believers, kind of like David’s cave in Adullam; we were the outcasts, and those who were moved to seek teaching that was deeper and purer and exempt from the heresies of our day.
But in the events which arose when Moriel ministries separated from David Nathan, and in the various debates which swirled around it, there is no doubt in many of our minds, Satan has been given permission to have us and to sift us like wheat.
I really don’t wish to revisit the secondary controversies about whether or not either party handled the separation properly and had given each other the time and grace to resolve, nor the other further controversies raging around the rhetoric used, this one calling that one’ Ahab’, ‘AntiChrist’, f’alse teacher’, ‘heretic’, ‘religious crackpot’ and worse ephithets..
It wasn’t one-sided either, for the other camp resorted to responding with ‘liar’, ‘mentally ill’, ‘unbalanced’, ‘Spiritual abuser’, and vicious videos were produced and distributed as well, accusing people who tried in good faith to contribute, of being mere ‘spin doctors’, cowards and so forth.
These things have the marks of Satan entering into the congregation and those who resorted to them recklessly (and there have been many on both sides) have yielded to Satan without a doubt. That aspect of these past months deserves serious reflection on all of our parts, for the anger vitriol, accusation and slander which has casually been indulged in by some (certainly not most) has been exceedingly hurtful to our cause.
Temptations and trials neither give us faith, nor do they take it away, they merely show us the reality of our faith and love or the lack thereof. We have all been tried severely friends, God has allowed it.
I have wanted to ‘clear the table’ of all of the obfuscation, argument, accusation and other fleshly manifestation and just simply address the original issue…because there is something about it that troubles me.
In my view, the original issue which triggered all of this boils down to two statements of David Nathan’s;
- “ The blood of Jesus will not profit anyone anything in the Millennium” and the twin statement in which Nathan strongly asserts that the blood sacrifices offered in the Millennium are in no way memorial. In other words, they do not point back to the cross of Jesus, as the Lord’s Supper does.
- ” God the Father did not Create anything”...
Since then, David has preached entire sermons, which assure us that he believes that only the blood of Jesus can save people, and that He believes in the power and eternity of Jesus’ blood, and in effect He has bent over backwards to proclaim Orthodoxy as regarding salvation by the blood.
I am glad for that and accept that he believes the right thing about the blood of Jesus in this dispensation. I have been berated by many of David’s friends who have seemingly been baffled, demanding of me,”What more does David have to do to get you to see that he believes in the blood of Jesus just like you do?”
I am compelled to write this to you who feel this way and want an answer.
I have heard David’s sermons about the issue, and have heard him apologizing for having mis-spoke, and He even humbled himself (to his credit) admitting to pride in the way he had spoken. Praise God.
So what is my problem? Why haven’t I ‘forgiven ‘ him? *
My problem is that David has never explained why he said such an outrageous thing in the first place, and I have never heard him once specifically repudiate it.
This is why I have maintained all along that David could have and should have cleared this up immediately. This could have happened in Los Angeles, it would have taken five minutes, unless David really does believe such a thing.
The answer to such a statement is not another sermon or a soft interview which involves a mere confession of the Orthodox doctrine. The outrageous statement needs to either be explained or repudiated.
The same goes for the equally outrageous statement, ” God the Father Created Nothing…” . Yes David I have heard your sermon in which you set forth the doctrine of Christ as the agent of Creation, and I agree with it. All of orthodox Christianity would agree that Christ is the agent of Creation, that is not the issue. Everyone I know would agree with the scriptures you set forth about Christophanies in the Old Testament.But you didn’t clear up the original statement, you doubled down.
But no one I know of except you and perhaps Oneness Pentecostals would then make the leap in logic and assert that since Christ is the agent of creation, then “God the Father Created Nothing…”.
Christ is the agent of Creation, all things were made by him, for him and through him, but it doesn’t follow to say that the Father didn’t create a thing. “Let us make man in our Image…”. The Father, Son and Holy Spirit all had a complete part in Creation, it is needlessly provocative to asset otherwise.
David doesn’t repudiate this assertion, he seems to double down on it…that is my nagging problem.
I love David Nathan, his lovely wife and daughter. I have been accused of dragging his name through the mud, harming him, accusing and badgering him and not forgiving him, none of which is true. I haven’t involved myself in the vitriol, I have been slimed myself by people on both sides of this.
My conclusion for my friends who think otherwise is this, “If you don’t have a problem with a minister who says that the blood of Jesus will not profit anyone in the Millennium, ” or perhaps even worse, that there is no memorial aspect to the coming blood sacrifices (This means that there will be sacrifices offered which are not connected in any way to Calvary), go right ahead and do what you are led to do.
Furthermore if you think David N has adequately addressed all of the concerns about his denial that the Father created everything, go for it. I don’t want to fight (except for the truth) . Everyone must do what is in their heart.
I have all kinds of problems with these two issues, but don’t assume I haven’t forgiven or don’t love David Nathan because it isn’t true. I don’t want to belabor the point any more. I am not ashamed to say that I love everyone in this sad spectacle. I am sorry for any I have let down in anyway in this fight. We will have other spiritual fights to come, hopefully not among ourselves.
May God forgive us and truly give us his gift of discernment, because it looks like we are not anywhere near as sharp as we thought we were, nor as Loving. Remember that the balance is Truth and LOVE.
- This should never have been a mere personal issue. Doctrinal issues are not primarily a matter of forgiveness … they are matters of the determination of truth… One cannot deviate from the doctrine of the blood of Jesus or from the doctrine of the person of Christ or of God and then merely be forgiven. We have to know that we know that our companions in the ministry are Orthodox. (James 3:1)